Foreign.

Hello, my name is Will Spencer and welcome to the Will Spencer Podcast.

This is a weekly show featuring in depth conversations with authors, leaders and influencers who help us understand our changing world.

New episodes release every Friday.

This is just a quick reminder that I'm still on vacation this week, returning after the holiday for all new episodes beginning on Friday, January 10th.

I'm very excited with the guests I have lined up and the new topics we'll be exploring together.

It's been quite a year for me, as you can imagine.

More than just the rebrand went down, there was my brief involvement with the craziness in the reformed world as well.

And though I got right with God over all of it, as hard as it is to believe, many people seem to think that I've chosen the wrong side.

Perhaps the madness is far more widespread.

Than we know, so it means a.

Lot that you're still here listening, and I'm looking forward to continuing the adventure and to making new friends along the way.

This week I'll be replaying one of my favorite episodes of all time, my Poetry for Men episode featuring William Butler Yeats.

A Dialogue of Self and soul.

Can you believe that this episode was recorded more than two years ago?

I think it's one of the finest examples of how my Christian faith has transformed me and how we're all a work in progress.

Because, as you'll hear me say, when I started working on this review of the poem, I saw it one way.

But as I researched Yates and his.

Occultic background, that changed not only my perceptions of him, but also of the poem and the episode.

Overall, I had to go back to.

The drawing board at least two or three times to create an episode that I felt represented my faith and glorified the God I was coming to know.

So I share this with you again as a sort of mile marker to see how far we've traveled together once again.

I'll see you all for all new.

Episodes starting next week.

And please enjoy this re presentation of my Poetry for Men episode, A Dialogue of Self and Soul by William Butler Yeats.

This episode I'm staying with contemporary poets.

And exploring the work of one of.

The most towering literary figures of the.

20Th century, William Butler Yeats.

I put a lot of time into.

Selecting the poem this week.

Seeing as I originally chose it for.

My two year anniversary.

I wanted to make it count.

I considered works by Robert Frost, Goethe, and Rumi, all of which were personally important to my life and story, but.

Ultimately I wanted to read something with a more universal appeal.

We'll get to those other works in time.

Besides, it's hard to argue with a Nobel Prize.

The key part of that is Anglo Irish.

The ascendancy considered themselves English people that.

Happened to be born in Ireland.

But in the late 19th century the Ascendancy began to decline.

Ha ha.

As Irish nationalism took hold and the Irish Catholics became more prominent in Irish culture.

Foster quoted Napoleon's dictum that to understand the man, you have to know what.

Was happening in the world when he.

Was 20 and said that is manifestly true of Yeats.

And the more I think of it, the more that seems true for me as well.

This nationalist shift in Irish culture when.

Yeats was in his twenties had a.

Profound effect on his life and writing.

He was originally schooled at home by his mother and father, but then he.

Transitioned to boarding school where his performance was described as only fair, perhaps better in Latin than in any other subject.

Very poor in spelling.

For all you underachievers, there's hope for a Nobel Prize yet.

The house was 50 pounds per year.

In addition to poetry, Yeats also wrote plays, novellas, short stories, and more.

Of the golden dawn, which is a.

Ritual magical order based on the teachings.

Of the Hermetic Kabbalah as well as astrology, Tarot, alchemy, and more.

These are subjects I happen to know.

A few things about.

As part of his admission into the golden dawn, he took the magical motto.

Daemon est Deus inversus, translated Devil is God.

Inverted.

Shocking as that sounds, that description is.

Accurate, but that discussion is outside the bounds of this podcast.

Hold on to that statement.

And I know that Yeats was far.

From alone in his endeavors because there.

Was a massive surge of interest in the occult driven by a movement which.

At the time was called Vitalism.

Theosophy and Rosicrucianism were also part of this larger movement, which helped give birth.

To Aleister Crowley, who called himself the wickedest man alive.

In his own words, Crowley desired to.

Be Satan's chief of staff.

He also went on to influence generations.

Of rock stars, artists, scientists and more.

When I discovered Yeats's interest in the.

Occult and 32 years long membership in.

The Golden Dawn, I strongly considered canceling.

This poem and studying something else.

But I stuck with it and went.

On an epic journey that I hope.

Will have relevance to my listeners and.

To this important historical moment we find ourselves in.

Because this information is deeply relevant to.

The poem itself and speaks into aspects of the poem's core message that I.

Was trying to figure out how to.

Address in the proper way.

Also, as we'll see, Yates gets a bunch of other things right.

So this will be an important lesson.

About attribution of ultimate authority.

And that's all I'll say for now.

So thanks history, and thanks to CB Robertson from Caffeine and Philosophy for alerting me that this information was out there.

Because now I get to tackle it head on.

Moving on.

Around the same time as Yates developed his interest in occultism, he also met.

John O'Leary, a former Irish nationalist who.

Had returned from exile following the shifting.

Cultural winds in Ireland.

Like many from the British Isles during the height of Empire, Yeats had fostered a romantic interest in foreign countries like India.

But as a 25 year old man.

Under O'Leary's influence, he took to heart.

O'Leary's advice that Irish writers should write about Irish subjects.

Yeats would later write, when I first wrote, I went here and there for my subjects as my reading led me, and preferred to all other countries, Arcadia and the India of Romance.

But presently I convinced myself that I should never go for the scenery of a poem to any country but my.

Own, and I think that I shall.

Hold to that conviction to the end.

Now brace yourself, because things are about to get wild and you're going to.

Get a taste of what I discovered.

When I went digging.

Yates grew obsessed with Gahn, considering her his muse.

But he never actually became involved with.

Her in those early days, due in.

Part to her activism on behalf of the Irish nationalist cause, which had her living in Ireland.

Later, he said from that point, the troubling of my life began.

Her husband, who fought in the South African Boer War.

And for the men listening, it shouldn't come as a surprise that the beautiful young woman chose the dashing former military officer over the gifted but contemplative artist.

Perhaps it should also not come as a surprise that the marriage of the beauty and the soldier was a disaster.

During their marriage, Maude frequently traveled to.

Ireland to continue her activism work lady.

Leaving McBride in Paris.

She would later write that despite her warnings to her husband, he became friends with the journalist Victor Collings, who introduced.

Him to a rather undesirable drinking set who usually foregathered in the American bar.

He had an unhappy life in Paris.

He did not know a word of.

French and must often have been very lonely, as my work kept me much in Ireland.

What Maude didn't mention was that she was also visiting Yeats in London during.

Her trips as well, presumably to unload her troubles on him.

So for those keeping score at home.

We'Ve got hypergamy, feminism and orbiters.

But it continues.

Two years after their marriage.

They were not granted a divorce by.

The French courts, however, in part because.

None of Maude's accusations towards her husband.

Held up in court, except for one night of drunkenness.

But the court did grant a separation.

To the couple, with custody to the.

Mother and visitation rights to the father.

Some things never change.

But it continues.

Consummated their long relationship, almost 20 years after his first proposal.

Apparently another one of his lovers described.

It as the long years of fidelity rewarded at last, while Yeats himself remarked about it, saying, the tragedy of sexual.

Intercourse is the perpetual virginity of the soul.

To me, this suggests Yates was dissatisfied.

With the experience, which is perhaps understandable.

For they met in their early 20s.

And did not consummate things until their 40s.

This can't possibly live up to the potential of youthful passions in full bloom.

But I'm speculating Either way, their night.

Together did not lead to a relationship.

Maude would later write to Yates, quote, I have prayed so hard to have all earthly desire taken from my love.

For you and dearest, loving you as.

I do, I have prayed and am praying still, that the bodily desire for me will be taken from you too.

For his part, Yeats would later recall.

The night in his poem.

A man young and old, he wrote.

My arms are like the twisted thorn.

And yet there beauty lay, the first.

Of all the tribe lay there.

And did such pleasure take she who.

Had brought great Hector down and put all Troy to wreck.

What's most tragic about this is the.

Unavoidable note of bitterness.

And what of Major John MacBride?

But as a former soldier well known.

To the British, McBride was left out of the important meetings.

By accident, as history goes, he was.

On his way to meet his brother, Dr.

Anthony McBride, who had arrived in.

Dublin to be married that week.

On the way to meet his brother at the train station on that very day, Easter Sunday, Major John McBride turned.

Up Grafton street and happened to bump into Thomas MacDonough, another poet, playwright and activist and one of the seven leaders.

Of the Easter Rising and signatory of.

The proclamation of the Irish Republic.

MacDonough was leading his uniformed troops marching towards the start of the Easter Rising conflict.

Major John McBride offered his services to.

The cause was accepted as a participant under McDonough, who was Commandant of the 2nd Battalion, Dublin Brigade of the Irish Volunteers.

MacBride, MacDonough and the soldiers fought in Jacob's Biscuit Factory, one of the major battles of the Rising.

For military scholars, I found a link.

Where you can read witness statements about the battle and more.

That's in the show notes.

The Rising was put down by the.

British after seven days, and Major John.

McBride was tried, convicted and executed by.

Firing squad less than a month later, on May 5.

Facing the British firing squad, McBride declined to be blindfolded.

He said, I have looked down the muzzles of too many guns in the.

South African war to fear death.

And now please carry out your sentence.

Respect Yates, who believed Major John McBride.

Stole his muse, Maud Gone, wrote an.

He this other man I had dreamed.

A drunken, vainglorious lout, he had done most bitter wrong to some who are near my heart.

Yet I number him in the song.

He too has resigned his part in the casual comedy.

He too has been changed in his turn, transformed utterly.

A terrible beauty is born, to which Maud Gan replied in a letter, no, I don't like your poem.

It isn't worthy of you, and above.

All, it isn't worthy of its subject.

As for my husband, he has entered eternity by the great door of sacrifice, so that, praying for him, I can.

Also ask for his prayers.

A bust of Major John McBride stands.

At his native Westport, County Mayo in Ireland.

A photo of that is linked in the show notes as well.

There's a lot I can say about all this, but first, one of my.

Favorite things about doing these episodes is.

Is how my research into the history.

Of these poets takes me further afield than I can ever imagine.

It also colors the interpretation of the.

Poem, which you'll see.

Second, Wikipedia is often full of misinformation.

Distortions and misunderstandings, but there are moments where it's hard not to appreciate the glorious gift of a wealth of information like this.

Maybe I should start a history podcast.

Third, for those working their red pill.

Scorecard, we've racked up hypergamy, feminism, Beta Orbiters, Sigma Chads, no Fault, divorce, Simping, White Knighting, single motherhood, pity sex, and more.

If someone would be kind enough to.

Send this to Rolo Tomasi, I think he'd enjoy it.

Fourth and finally, if you think your.

Life is full of drama, just be thankful you're not an artist.

Just as I was about to close out this segment, I found more information that concludes the story between Yates and Maude Gone.

After McBride's death, a proposal which Yates.

Biographer notes was motivated more by a sense of duty than any genuine desire to marry.

Christopher Cahill in the Atlantic wrote that Maud Gon may have had a chloroform.

Addiction at the time as well.

One way or another, Yeats's indifferent proposal was declined.

So according to Yeats's biographer, he turned his attention to Iseult, Maud Gane's 21.

Year old daughter from a previous marriage.

If you're wondering where Isilde came from, Maud had previously been in a relationship with the French journalist and right wing.

The relationship produced two first, a son who died of meningitis at around a.

Year old and a daughter Isilde, who.

Was conceived and this is a direct quote as an attempt to reincarnate her deceased brother.

As her adopted niece is never liked McBride.

And the French divorce court heard allegations.

That he had sexually assaulted her.

Allegations which, as stated earlier, didn't hold up.

He was 44 at the time, so he declined.

Proposed when Israel was 21 and he was rejected.

Yates got shot down by a mother and her daughter.

I told you things would get wild, but we're not even done yet.

Despite her friend's warnings, they married.

And apparently their marriage was a great success.

The couple had two children.

But in later years, Yates proved unfaithful.

Georgie wrote to him, when you are.

Dead, people will talk about your love affairs, but I shall say nothing, for I will remember how proud you were.

Ouch.

But at least they shared some things in common.

Are you ready?

Georgie had also been part of golden dawn, so together they enjoyed a love for seances, spiritism and the occult.

Beginning four days after their wedding, Georgie.

Held a series of 400 sessions of.

Automatic writing, where you allegedly let spirits guide your hand as you write to communicate their information.

This produced more than 4,000 pages that Yeats obsessed over, so at least there's that.

I promise you this will all be relevant to the poem.

You may be wondering by this point.

If Yeats had any time to write.

Indeed, for many years he was part of the Abbey Theatre Company, whose manifesto we hope to find in Ireland an.

Uncorrupted and imaginative audience trained to listen by its passion for oratory and that.

Freedom to experiment which is not found.

In the theaters of England and without.

Which no new movement in art or literature can succeed.

He wrote 10 plays with this company.

He also collaborated with the famous American poet Ezra Pound, who served as his secretary and inspired Yeats fascination with the.

Japanese Knoll style of theater.

Into these forms, Yeats wove his interest in Irish culture, folklore and mythology.

In his poetry he used symbolism in both structure and imagery.

And as he matured into a middle.

Aged poet, he left behind the lush and dramatic style of his youth for.

A style that critics have described as.

Quote, supple and muscular.

The famous Irish poet Seamus Heaney said.

Of him regarding this transition, he is.

Indeed the ideal example for a poet approaching middle age.

He reminds you that revision and slog.

Work are what you may have to.

Undergo if you seek the satisfaction of Finish.

He bothers you with the suggestion that if you have managed to do one kind of poem in your own way, you should cast off that way and face into another area of your experience until you have learned a new voice.

To say that area properly later in life.

Yeats began to come into his own.

As an Irish statesman.

Ireland began its war for independence in.

Yeats won the Nobel Prize for literature.

Was for his always inspired poetry, which.

In a highly artistic form gives expression.

To the spirit of a whole nation.

Yates used this opportunity to become a.

Prominent Irish senator and advocate for his.

Nation as part of Europe's free states.

But the split between Protestant and Catholic.

Irish began to express itself in those.

Early days of the nation, a divide which he warned about while in office.

His book sales following his Nobel Prize.

Also made him very wealthy, and he.

Used the money to pay both his debts and those of his father.

And as much as I'd like to.

Tell you that the weirdness ended in.

His old age, that's not true.

What was called a Steinek operation, which is a half vasectomy.

Steinek's theory was that the sperm and vital essence of two testicles would be.

Concentrated in one with resulting benefit to potency and vigor.

Steiner later became famous for helping to.

Discover the role between testosterone and estrogen and human physical identifiers.

And he also helped develop the original transgender surgery.

It should not be a surprise then that transgenderism is connected to the occult.

Though Steinak's vasectomy operation was eventually discredited and Yates case, it seems to have worked.

Yates wrote in a letter quote, I.

Find my present weakness made worse by the strange second puberty the operation has.

Given me for the ferment that has.

Come upon my imagination.

If I write poetry, it will be unlike anything I have done.

This also explains his late life infidelity.

To his wife Georgie.

Swami to translate the Hindu Upanishads, an effort inspired by Yeats's mystical leanings.

Age 73 and is currently buried in a humble grave near his boyhood home in County Silgo.

He wrote of his old age, now that my ladder's gone, I must lie down where all the ladders start, in the foul rag and bone shop of the heart.

If you recognize that last phrase.

It's the title of the compilation by.

Robert Bly, James Hillman and Michael Mead.

That helped inspire the Poetry for Men.

Series and from which I took this poem.

While all this information challenged my commitment.

To journalistic integrity, for it would not.

Otherwise be my intention to document a man who lived so contrary to my.

Values, I think it raises some important philosophical and even theological points which we'll.

Deal with in the interpretation.

But separate from any question of morality, I hope we can see the tensions that live within at least some of.

The men who produce great art.

Yeats's story, while unique, has common elements.

To many artists even today.

Mysticism, sexual liberation, feminism, and other social.

We didn't arrive at this historical moment by accident, and as usual, artists are.

On the precipitous edge of those shifts.

And sometimes far beyond them, with a.

Wild ride firmly in mind.

This is a dialogue of self and.

Soul By William Butler Yeats.

Myself a living man is blind and drinks his drop.

What matter if the ditches are impure?

What matter if I live it all.

Once more endure that toil of growing up, the ignominy of boyhood, the distress.

Of boyhood changing into man, the unfinished.

Man in his pain brought face to face with his own clumsiness, the finished.

Man among his enemies.

How in the name of heaven can.

He escape that defiling and disfigured shape.

The mirror of malicious eyes casts upon his eyes, until at last he thinks that shape must be his shape.

And what's the good of an escape if honour find him in the wintry blast?

I am content to live it all again and yet again, if it be.

Life, to pitch into the frog spawn.

Of a blind man's ditch, a blind man battering blind men, or into that most fecund ditch of all the folly that man does or must suffer if.

He woos a proud woman not kindred.

Of his soul, I am content to.

Follow to its source every event in.

Action or in thought.

Measure the lot, forgive myself the lot.

When such as I cast out remorse.

So great a sweetness flows into the breast.

We must laugh and we must sing.

We are blessed by everything.

Everything we look upon is blessed.

Suffice it to say that my interpretation of this poem is different now than.

The first time I read it.

It came across as a bit more inspiring.

Before I understood Yeats and the details of his life.

So this is going to be a.

Fun experiment to separate the wheat from.

The chaff, to see what of value we can take away from this work.

To inspire our lives as men.

It's in there.

It's just going to take some surgery.

Also, this episode is going to be a philosophical and theological deep dive in parts.

I've tried to make the language as clear as possible.

Yates wrote, quote, the mystical life is the center of all that I do and all that I think and all that I write.

And that is absolutely true of this poem.

There is a lot packed into these.

Few short sentences, so I've tried to communicate those aspects without burdening the interpretation.

If you have any questions, please email me@infoenofmen.com and I'll do my best to answer them.

So let's start with the structure.

This is actually the second half of a longer poem in which Yeats is documenting a dialogue between his personal, temporal self and his higher immortal soul.

His soul is concerned with transcendence, the life above and between lives, let's say.

And his self is thinking about earthly.

Artifacts of life, in this case a.

Japanese samurai sword, a quote, emblem of.

Love and war, which harkens back to.

Yates obsession with Japanese theater.

It's worth noting here that the Eastern.

Mysticism of India, particularly Vedanta and Zen.

Buddhism and Japan have a great deal in common.

It's outside of the scope of this.

Podcast, but if you'd like to know.

More, you can read Orthodoxy and the.

Religion of the Future by the brilliant Father Seraphim Rose.

For the rest of you, think of it this Whether drinking beer or sake.

The end result is the intoxication.

So just before the point when we encounter the poem, the soul has made its final argument about transcendence.

That concludes the first half of the poem.

In the second half, which we're reading, Yeats's personal self, then attempts to synthesize.

The first half into something useful for everyday life.

The notion of the self and soul being separate and somewhat independent beings, by.

The way, is a core tenet of the mystical view, whether of east or West.

Remember what he said about mysticism being.

At the center of his thought and writing?

He meant it.

Before going on, I want to acknowledge though his philosophy and theology were questionable.

And we will question them, Yates was undoubtedly in possession of a brilliant mind.

As I mentioned earlier, with his wife Georgie and her 4,000 pages of automatic.

Writing, Yates developed his own systematic cosmology.

I'm familiar with different schools of occult.

Thought and Eastern mysticism, and they've taken thousands of years to develop.

Yeats developed his own in considerably less time than that.

So for all his flaws, Yeats was.

Still a polymath, an accomplished poet, dramatist, senator, and spiritualist.

Occult philosophy is impossibly complex, perhaps intentionally so, and that's why it's a trap.

For so many men, including almost for me.

So while I believe Yeats misused his gifts, as I'll show you his gifts stand nonetheless.

I say all this because the first half of the poem is dense with.

Spiritualist symbolism and philosophy, which is why I'm not reading it.

To properly take it apart for you.

My audience, I'd have to understand his cosmology more thoroughly.

That's a bit outside of my interest.

At the moment, but I want you to know that I know from looking at the first half of the poem.

The man went as deep into mysticism.

As one can go, no easy feat.

So I feel obliged to offer him.

That gesture of respect.

But before I set the preliminary section.

Of the poem aside, thankfully, Yeats's mysticism.

Also shows up in this portion of.

The poem, which we'll see.

So, to get back on track, this.

Second half of the poem is Yeats's.

Personal self, synthesizing the perspectives of his.

Earthly aspect that lives and dies, and the eternal aspect of himself that doesn't, and trying to find harmony between them again.

The title of the poem is a.

Dialogue of self and soul, with his.

Self getting the last word.

The poem is structured in four stanzas, with the first two being a quasi historical survey of his life as a.

Man, and the second two being a philosophical statement about that life.

Though it's not clear when the poem.

So it's fair to say that this poem is Yeats reflecting on his own.

Life in old age, which is important to keep in mind.

Let's start with the first lines of the poem.

A living man is blind and drinks his drop.

What matter if the ditches are impure?

Here yeats is making five profound philosophical.

Statements in just 20 syllables.

We, as living men are blind to aspects of reality.

We're gifted a small portion of life which we consume.

We find our way into troubles of life or ditches.

These troubles are not entirely clean, and that the purity of the ditches might not really matter all that much.

This is what I mean by Yeats's gifts.

Whether you agree with his ideas or.

Not, it's a remarkable Achievement to say so much with such economy of language.

And that, my friends, is poetry.

Let's unpack these two lines.

We'll start with blindness.

How much of our lives is lived through our eyes?

If you can close your eyes for.

A moment, how much of life immediately goes away with a lack of sight?

Color, shape, dimension and movement all vanish.

We have no idea of our true.

Appearance or of anyone else's.

So Yates is saying that no matter how much we perceive, even with our five senses intact, we are still essentially blind to a massive amount of existence.

Drinking a drop makes sense as an.

Image, but it's important to note that Yeats doesn't say a drop.

A living man drinks his drop.

It's possessive.

There's something personal about it.

It's a drop that has been allocated.

To the man, is how I read it.

As in, here's your drop.

Now the ditches.

I think we can picture an impure ditch.

Muddy, brackish, water, trash floating in it.

A thin film of slime on the.

Surface, a floating fishbone, and worse.

That is an impure ditch, a trench.

That catches runoff water and garbage on.

The side of a road.

What matter if these episodes of life are impure?

Hold onto that next line.

What matter if I live it all once more?

And this is yet another core tenet of mysticism, reincarnation.

If you've never had this idea explained to you before, basically it says that some eternal part of us is born.

Over and over again on earth, perhaps in a human body, though not necessarily that eternal part of us is the soul.

The soul, when it's reborn, takes on.

A self, which it then discards like.

A skin suit for the next go round of life.

When a soul takes on a new.

Life, it gets a new self.

Maybe this one, you're a king.

Maybe next one you're a pauper.

Maybe the third one you're a child who dies in youth.

Maybe you even get to be a Nobel Prize winner.

Let's read these three lines again.

A living man is blind and drinks his drop.

What matter if the ditches are impure?

What matter if I live it all once more?

So in the dialogue of self and.

Soul, this portion of the poem is.

The person of William Butler Yeats saying.

The men are born blind, and while.

Consuming their portion of life, they stumble into destructive folly.

But what does any folly really matter?

And what does it really matter if you have to do it the same.

Way all over again?

Drinking and stumbling into impure ditches.

Remember what I said about the intoxication.

Of mysticism From a Christian perspective, nothing about this could be more wrong.

But here's the frustrating part.

Did you notice the rhythm of the lines?

They're written in iambic pentameter, or pairs of unstressed and stressed syllables.

A living man is blind and drinks his drop.

What matter if the ditches are impure?

What matter if I live it all once more?

The choice of meter is not a coincidence, as we'll see.

It's not a formality, an imitation, or just a habit.

This brilliant man, with his own personal.

Cosmology and mature use of language, is.

Using this model of rhythmic perfection, referencing.

Shakespeare, to assert the superiority of his worldview.

He is making a profound theological, cosmological.

Philosophical and artistic statement in just 30 syllables.

And what's so incredible is that it feels effortless, weightless, as if these are.

The most natural sentences in the world.

The longest word is just two syllables and seven letters.

If you've ever had a writing instructor tell you to make your writing simpler.

This is what he meant.

This is mastery.

Because I've spent 800 or so words and two hours of writing time to unpack what Yeats did in less than one breath.

So I hope you can feel the respect I have for him and his.

Art amongst my disagreement.

But let's set aside what I think you'll know.

A tree by its fruits.

Right.

Let's continue examining the poem and judge.

Yeats's worldview grid based on the fruits it's produced in his life.

The next section of the poem is a survey of the seasons of a man's life.

I'll read it in its entirety, and.

Then we'll dissect it.

Endure that toil of growing up, the.

Ignominy of boyhood, the distress of boyhood changing into man, the unfinished man in.

His pain brought face to face with his own clumsiness, the finished man among his enemies.

How in the name of heaven can.

He escape that defiling and disfigured shape.

The mirror of malicious eyes casts upon.

His eyes until at last he thinks.

That shape must be his shape.

And what's the good of an escape if honor find him in the wintry blast?

I found this section of the poem deeply moving.

On one hand, it's his own assessment.

Of his personal experience of life.

And as a man blessed with a keen mind, sharp insight, and perceptive awareness, he bears a heavier burden of consciousness.

Than many other men and women do.

So in some ways, life would be.

Harder on him than other people who.

Aren'T quite as sensitive to their experience.

But at the same time, he hits on some universal themes of all men's.

Lives that I think we can relate.

To, no matter where we are in our journey as men.

The language here is pretty clear, except.

For the word ignominy, which means public shame or disgrace.

So I won't go stage by stage.

Through the interpretation, but let's pull out some key ideas.

The first of these two stanzas is.

About the growing up process, which Yeats describes as a toil to go from.

Boyhood to manhood to unfinished manhood.

Boyhood can be shameful, puberty can be stressful, and young adulthood can be uncertain, when men are often old enough to.

Know how they're supposed to be, but.

Too young yet to be it.

This might be hard for us to.

Understand because we live in an era that lionizes youth, but in previous stages.

Of history, youth was considered a time of preparation for manhood, so it was.

Both possible and necessary to be critical of the experience.

Today, however, youth is considered the ideal.

So no matter how far of youth we are, we look back and imagine.

Those days as the goal.

And this is part of the inversion.

That we're living through, with men following.

Women and women following children, but not children themselves.

Although in some cases that can be true.

It is the following of eternal youth.

This is exactly backwards to what it would have been in Yeats's day, where children followed women, women followed men, and.

Men followed the highest ideal of maturity.

And wisdom embodied by God.

You know, the old guy in the.

Sky with the long white beard?

Yeah, that was an ideal.

But in mortal men, that maturity and wisdom can only be acquired in old.

Age, after metabolizing decades of life experience.

So Yeats is both being hard on his personal childhood and the notion of childhood itself, not just because he's making a point, but because it's right.

I did also want to highlight the notion of the unfinished man brought face to face with his own clumsiness.

An unfinished man in Yeats's day would have been a man in his teens.

Or twenties, and again today, we'd consider that an ideal.

But such men were considered unfinished, and.

That this was natural because men must be cultivated.

Turning a boy into a man is a work of conscious effort over decades by a father, a community, a profession, a woman, a family, and a faith.

Making it through that gauntlet and thriving is what it means to be finished.

Because failure or incompletion can happen at.

Any stage along that path.

And I reckon that most men you.

Will meet today of any Age would be considered unfinished because they've never been cultivated.

So I hope, outside our need today for men to be a certain way.

To resurrect our civilization, we can recognize.

That most men live their lives painfully.

Unfinished, which is why we can often be so clumsy.

Many men die that way, too, which to me, is why the Renaissance is so important.

The Renaissance is, in its highest ideal, an opportunity for unfinished men to finish ourselves and help each other do so.

To rid ourselves of our pain of clumsiness.

What Yeats took for granted and in many ways was helping to undermine, though.

Somewhat unintentionally, we now have to rediscover, which I think is why you're all here.

But after a man becomes finished, life doesn't get any easier for him.

The next stanza of the poem reads, the finished man among his enemies.

How in the name of heaven can he escape that defiling and disfigured shape the mirror of malicious eyes casts upon.

His eyes until at last he thinks.

That shape must be his shape.

This one is tough, because what Yeats is describing here is something I've experienced.

I reckon it's something that every man.

Has gone through, or perhaps goes through all the time, and undoubtedly women, too.

You work hard to finish yourself, to.

Cultivate yourself, to raise yourself up to a standard you can be proud of.

And yet what you see reflected in others eyes is a gross and twisted.

Shape that reflects their opinions of you.

Not necessarily the truth.

Although how are we supposed to know the difference?

Sometimes in that moment, it's easy to mistake those opinions for the truth.

But there is some hope.

The eyes are malicious, for the men are enemies.

It's not simply an honest mistake or a misunderstanding.

It's active persecution.

The trick is recognizing an enemy when.

You see one, because Yeats says, how.

In the name of heaven can he escape?

Which is to say the finished man must encounter his enemies.

A man who is finished will encounter them.

How in the name of heaven is a phrase used as a desperate cry.

How in the name of heaven can.

I escape this impossible thing?

You can't, because Yeats follows it with.

And what's the good of an escape if honor find him in the wintry blast?

The wintry blast means old age.

The message is, if a man does.

Find an escape, it will be dishonorable, and that dishonor will find you in old age.

So this is what the life of.

A man means to Yeats.

Shameful boyhood, uncertain adolescence, a clumsy and painful young adulthood, followed by the unavoidable.

Persecution of Enemies as an adult that cannot be avoided.

Or else you risk your honor.

What resonates about this is that it's true.

I think every man listening understands this.

It's not the entire truth, for life.

Is also full of joy, love, warmth, and fulfillment as well.

But this is the backbone of the truth, of what it means to be a man.

It's what every man must be prepared for if he wishes to live and thrive.

I ask the women listening, to think.

About the men in your life.

Where are they on this journey, finished or unfinished?

Can you see them?

Can you give them the gift of.

Understanding that these are the currents of life as men that we experience but never say, not because we don't have enough words, but that it takes a.

Genius like Yeats to.

To say it so clearly in so few.

And that is why this poem is so difficult for me to read.

He's right about so much.

Movingly so, Heartbreakingly so.

And yet.

And yet.

Before moving on, I want to show it to you.

A living man is blind and drinks his drop.

What matter if the ditches are impure?

What matter if I live it all once more?

Remember how those are in perfect iambic pentameter.

Now, what's the very next line?

Endure that toil of growing up and then the ignominy of boyhood, the distress.

Of boyhood changing into man, the unfinished man, and his pain brought face to.

Face with his own clumsiness.

No iambic pentameter.

In fact, no meter at all.

A rhythm to the language, but no meter.

The message is the iambic pentameter symbolizes the perspective of the transcendent soul.

But in the very next step, it becomes a personal self enduring the toil of growing up from perfected ideal into a flawed and earthly being.

Do you see it?

Do you hear it?

Yeats's message in artistry extends even into.

His use of meter.

And yet it's so effortless and seamless.

You'D barely notice it unless you look.

My entire body collapsed in the experience of exquisite beauty.

When I saw this, I was, and.

Am, awed with appreciation because, like Galway.

Kennel's last gods, this one rang true.

This is poetry, one of the finest examples, perfectly crystallized for us to see.

And we must continue on.

Yeats writes, I am content to live it all again and yet again, if.

It be life, to pitch into the.

Frog spawn of a blind man's ditch.

First, this is a recapitulation of the.

First three lines, but now with a greater confidence in his assertion, there's the.

Mystical notion of reincarnation and his stated contentment that life as a man means.

Stumbling blindly into ditches all again and yet again.

And to make sure there's no mistake, the ditch contains frogspawn, which you only find in shaded, shallow ponds.

It's worth noting here that female frogs lay eggs, that male frogs fertilize with.

Sperm in the water.

So it's probably not something that a man wants to stumble into and hold onto that thought for a second, because.

Once again, there's the transition from iambic.

Pentameter into a more irregular meter as he goes from ideal into reality.

I am content to live it all.

Again and yet again, if it be.

Life, to pitch into the frog spawn.

Of a blind man's ditch.

It's almost as if the lines themselves stumble.

Are you seeing this?

And then the line, a blind man battering blind men.

The violence in that word, battering, and the brutality of the language in the line.

Each syllable lands like a punch.

Men, Is this not life?

Can you not relate to this?

And then here comes the kicker.

Or into that most fecund ditch of.

All the folly that man does or must suffer if he woos a proud.

Woman not kindred of his soul.

Fecund has two definitions, according to Merriam Webster.

First is fruitful in offspring or vegetation.

And second is intellectually productive or inventive.

To a marked degree.

I read these lines about Maud gone.

The word fecund here suggests not only.

Sex, but also the power of a muse.

Maud was most definitely that for Yeats.

This ties also to the frogspawn imagery.

Ditches he previously called impure, he then abused with the visceral substances of sex that he then stumbles into.

The message is unmistakable.

Yeats stumbles into impure sexual trysts.

The ditch is both fruitful in terms.

Of procreation and imagination, but it is folly and she is proud and does not share something vital in common with him.

I think this is about Maud Gonne.

And not Yeats's wife, Georgie.

First, because I can't imagine him writing publicly about his wife this way.

That would be monstrous.

Second, because her 4,000 pages of automatic writing suggests that she's probably quite kindred.

To his soul, but also because there's that unmistakable note of bitterness calling her proud.

And then the suggestion of her not being kindred of his soul is not a neutral statement.

It has a value judgment in it, which we'll see in a second.

Yates, like he did with Major General John McBride, is using his pen to slay her legacy.

The blind man battering blind men.

Reference may have actually been about McBride.

In part, but it seems that Yates hasn't learned much.

And sadly, it gets worse from here.

I am content to follow to its.

Source every event in action or in thought.

Measure the lot, forgive myself the lot.

It's unclear to me whether the source.

He traces his thoughts and actions to is a singular thing or independent for.

Each action or thought.

Is he talking about some ultimate source or his reasons for acting and speaking?

I think it's the latter.

He knows why he thinks what he.

Thinks and does what he does.

He measures the source and reason of every action and thought and forgives himself.

Just a moment ago, he cut the memory of a woman with a single word proud.

And he insulted her as being not kindred of his soul.

He talks about stumbling into impure sexual encounters or ditches, being covered in water and frog spawn made real in the manifestation of sweat and sperm.

He, like the rest of us, is.

A blind man battering other blind men.

And from his history we know for a fact he was unfaithful to his.

Wife and insulted the memory of a dead soldier who.

Who bravely fought and was executed for.

The very chance of a free Ireland that Yeats himself later became a statesman and senator of.

And this man has the temerity, the.

Gall, the sheer hubris to say, I forgive myself.

And now we're going to see how dark it gets.

When such as I cast out remorse so great a sweetness flows into the breast we must laugh and we must.

Sing we are blessed by everything Everything we look upon is blessed.

When such as I cast out remorse such as I.

It's hard not to read that as.

A statement of superiority, of ego in the worst possible way.

What is ugly and vain about a man?

This is why when he says, Maud.

Gone is not kindred of his soul.

He means it as an insult, for she is not kindred with a soul such as he.

And when he casts out remorse for his wrong actions, which he himself admits.

To, battering blind men and stumbling into ditches.

Yes, indeed, a great sweetness flows into the breast.

I have absolved myself of all responsibility, he says.

I have hurt people by my own admission.

I've done disgusting things.

I would do it all again and.

Yet again folly, shame, blindness, violence and filth would.

When I forgive myself, which such as.

I am capable of doing, I feel such gratitude for life.

I think I'll dance a jig and sing a song.

Look how blessed and holy everything is.

Everything I'm looking At is blessed.

Oh, how lovely to have the power to forgive oneself.

Isn't it amazing what you can do.

If you have that power?

Pretty much anything.

How fortunate.

What a blessing to myself I am.

What a blessing I am to everyone.

What a blessing everyone and everything is to me.

Of course, I wonder what everyone else thinks of him.

His wife certainly was kinder to him.

And his folly than she needed to be.

Her own friends warned her against him.

Maybe they were right, because now we come to the point.

Mysticism has an appeal for men and women because it denies any objective standard.

Of morality besides self interest.

Aleister Crowley, part of the Hermetic Order of the golden dawn, which Yeats and.

His wife were both a part of, was famous for saying, do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.

In other words, the only law the mystic, the occultist, the kabbalist needs to.

Follow, is to do what they want.

If they have done that, they have.

Followed the law and they are absolved.

This is probably the source that Yeats.

Has traced all his thoughts and actions back to.

To measure himself the lot and forgive himself the lot.

Did he do what he wanted then.

Such as he can cast out remorse and let sweetness flow into his breast.

He has pursued naked self interest, pun intended.

He achieved artistic genius, no doubt.

As far as I can tell, though contemporary geopolitics played a role.

He earned that Nobel Prize.

He derived many beautiful truths about life as a man.

He said true things, and he said.

Them marvelously, literally, in ways that I marvel at.

I also can't be too hard on.

Him because I've stumbled into a few frogspawn ditches myself, battered blind men, and.

Even studied with a mystery school that was connected, at least tangentially, with the Golden Dawn.

But Yates was also an adulterer, a.

Philandering old man who fought a dead soldier with a pen instead of living ones with his fists.

He publicly promoted traditional Irish history and.

Culture while privately practicing mystical Eastern and occult arts that had nothing to do with it.

He even said he would do it all again and yet again.

And in the final analysis, at least.

As far as he was concerned, he said, I forgive myself the lot.

How does that land for you?

Does that feel right?

Or just while you strive to be.

A good man, honest in your dealings, straightforward in your words, reliable and true, does it seem fair or even right that a man who holds himself to far lower standards can simply say, I.

Don'T know what y'all are talking about with that morality stuff.

I just forgive myself and look what happened.

Everything became blessed.

Does that work for you?

Or do you think somewhere in your.

Heart that maybe, just maybe, we as.

Men and women are accountable to something.

Beyond our self interest?

That in the final analysis it might be a bit more complicated than.

But I'm sorry, Will.

No problem, Will.

That maybe there is something, someone outside.

Of ourselves transcending every broken relationship that.

We run from, forget about or slander.

Someone who in the last moment says.

I saw that, and that, and that too, I saw it all.

It is the avoidance of that knowledge that draws men to occultism, to Advaita Vedanta, to automatic writing of spirits, to.

And to gurus who preach that all is one.

Because then no one is accountable for anything.

Because everything, even the frog spawn ditch, is blessed.

So stumble into it.

Defile yourself, harm others, aggrandize your own spirit, forgive yourself, then do it all again.

And yet again, I can't think of.

A more grim way of looking at life.

This is the opposite of blessed.

This is eternal torment made bearable only.

By one's assertion of superiority over others.

In the same predicament.

In other words, pride.

The same thing he accused Maud Gon of.

But there is a sign that Yeats knew, despite himself, the consequences of his.

Actions in a way he couldn't escape.

This poem is the last one in.

The compilation the Rag and Bone Shop of the Heart, which helped inspire this.

Series of poetry for men.

The rag and bone shop of the.

Heart, as we heard in the first half, is Yeats's line.

His own heart is full of nothing but rags and bones, and he even.

Describes it as foul.

The men who compiled this collection of poetry were Robert Bly, James Hillman, who was a direct student of Carl Jung.

And the poet Michael Mead.

The title is meant to evoke their perception of what it means to be men.

The choice of Yeats's poem to complete the compilation confirms it.

A heart full of rags and bones.

A poetic image, romantic, even mournful, with an empty kind of quietness.

But there is another way that men's hearts can be.

You have to give up the right to forgive yourself, though you have to serve more than your own self interest.

You have to know and be comfortable.

With every action and every thought, every.

Being traced back to its true source.

By one who sees more deeply than you.

That it matters that the ditches are impure and that you don't get to live it all once more.

That as blind men, we must stop battering other blind men.

Life will still be difficult, yes, but.

Maybe with the knowledge that we get.

Just one chance, we'll be motivated and.

Disciplined enough to do it right.

Our hearts could be that other way.

As men, all it costs us is our pride.

But in that moment, we can know there's a man who'll take from us.

Our heart of rags and bones and instead give to us a heart of flesh.

And that might be a blessing worth singing and dancing for.

Once again, this is a dialogue of self and soul By William Butler Yeats.

Myself A living man is blind and drinks his drop.

What matter if the ditches are impure?

What matter if I live it all.

Once more, endure that toil of growing up, the ignominy of boyhood, the distress.

Of boyhood changing into man, the unfinished.

Man in his pain brought face to face with his own clumsiness, the finished.

Man among his enemies.

How in the name of heaven can.

He escape that defiling and disfigured shape.

The mirror of malicious eyes casts upon.

His eyes until at last he thinks.

That shape must be his shape.

And what's the good of an escape if honor find him in the wintry blast?

I am content to live it all.

Again and yet again if it be.

Life to pitch into the frog spawn.

Of a blind man's ditch, a blind.

Man battering blind men.

Or into that most fecund ditch of.

All the folly that man does or must suffer if he woos a proud woman, not kindred of his soul, I.

Am content to follow to its source every event in action or in thought.

Measure the lot.

Forgive myself the lot when such as.

I cast out remorse so great a.

Sweetness flows into the breast.

We must laugh and we must sing.

We are blessed by everything Everything we look upon is blessed.

Sa sa.